148. Why You Should Treat Midlife As Your Most Important Dress Rehearsal | Conversation with Francine Azel

What if midlife wasn’t a crisis… but a dress rehearsal for how you actually want to live?

Episode Summary:

In this episode of The School of Midlife Podcast, Laurie sits down with Francine Azel, a woman who is embracing midlife not as a breakdown, but as a dress rehearsal for her next chapter. Fran gets real about the intentional work it takes to keep a long-term marriage alive—and why it's worth it. She talks candidly about the growing importance of friendships, the value of play and curiosity, and the permission she’s given herself to experiment with how she wants to live.

From honoring alone time in a house full of people, to making her relationship with her husband a living, breathing priority, Fran reminds us that midlife is the moment to stop going through the motions and start intentionally shaping what comes next.

This isn’t about burning it all down. It’s about tending to the flames that keep your soul lit.

What We Talk About:

• Why Fran sees midlife as a dress rehearsal—not a crisis
• The myth of “coasting” in long-term relationships
• How she and her husband are reinvesting in their marriage
• The growing significance of friendships in this stage of life
• Why you don’t need to “figure it all out”—just commit to the practice

Connect with Fran:

Fran is a powerhouse midlife woman living this journey in real time. You can find her on Instragram as pocketsized_fran.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] What if midlife wasn't a crisis, but a dress rehearsal for how you actually want to live? In today's episode of the School of Midlife podcast, I'm joined by Francine Azel, who opens up about the work of keeping a marriage alive, redefining priorities, and showing up for the life and friendships that matter most. Fran talks all about how she's treating midlife as a dress rehearsal to figure out what she wants to do and how she wants to live most in the second half of her life. This conversation is a powerful permission slip to stop performing and start practicing the version of yourself you actually want to be.

This is a great one. Please enjoy this conversation with Francine Azel.

Welcome to the School of Midlife podcast. I'm your host, Laurie Reynoldson.

This is the podcast for the midlife woman who starting to ask herself big life questions. Like, what do I want? Is it too late for me? And what's [00:01:00] my legacy beyond my family and my work. Each week we're answering these questions and more. At the School of Midlife, we're learning all of the life lessons they didn't teach us in school and we're figuring out finally what it is we want to be when we grow up. Let's make midlife your best life. 

Laurie: Fran, welcome to the School of Midlife podcast. I am so excited to get into this conversation with you today. I think we first met about a year ago. It it a little bit earlier than that. I know that you came to the retreat last year, but you might, I don't know if you remember this, you actually tagged me in a reel that you did after listening to an episode on this very podcast about, um, like instead of waiting for retirement to figure out what the hell you wanna do in this season of your life. And the [00:02:00] reason I wanted to talk to you on the podcast today is because you are modeling this so beautifully. So welcome to the podcast. Could you just do a quick favor and introduce yourself to the listeners, just a little bit about who you are, where you're at. Just tell us a little bit about Fran.

Fran: Absolutely. Well, I'm Francine. Everyone calls me Fran Azel and um, oh my gosh, I don't know how far back we're gonna go, but retired teacher. Uh, retired online health and fitness coach, empty nester. I've got a 26-year-old son, and today my daughter turned 25. So, um, yeah, loving empty nesting, but it wasn't always the case.

And, um, just, you know, I'm a travel advisor as well. I, I'm the kind of person that just needs to stay busy and, um, so yes, I have a feeling I, I have an idea which podcast I had [00:03:00] tagged you on because you talk a lot about dress rehearsal. And I felt like that opened up so many possibilities in the moment where life was happening physically around me, with my kids, even with my career.

And it just felt like I was going down this downward spiral. And when you told, when you talked about dress rehearsals, um. I felt like the pressure was taken off my shoulders and suddenly I'm like, okay, we can kind of like play. See where this leads. And so yeah, that's, and here I am a year later still playing, enjoying life, um, helping out, uh, I have got some, uh, friends of mine that have their own businesses, so I help them out with their business.

My husband and I own our own business, construction and, um, asset management. But on the side, I plan, I've been doing this for years. I plan travel. That's like my favorite thing. I've been doing it for years. I only officially, uh, signed up for it this [00:04:00] summer.

Laurie: That's great. So is travel seems to be definitely part of your midlife experience. Has that always been something that you have enjoyed or are you getting more into it now as you have a little bit more free time?

Fran: So the other day, funny enough, I was thinking, when did this all start? I've always loved, um, travel and I've always, as far as I could remember, loved planning. And so the other day I'm like, oh my God, I actually remember the exact moment I started planning. I must have been like 10. I know this is gonna sound crazy.

I must have been like 10 years old. And I must have bugged my dad enough because I wanted to go to Fort Wilderness. Fort Wilderness, for those that don't know, is like a Disney camping experience, You know I call it glamping 'cause everything's like padded, like perfect. I must have bugged my dad enough that he's like, you know what, if you really wanna go.

You make the plans, go ahead and make the reservations. I'm [00:05:00] sure he thought she's never gonna figure it out, but I did and within, who knows, 30 minutes, I called my dad. I'm like, dad, I need your credit card. They're on the phone. 'cause back then it wasn't an internet. You could just go ahead and make reservations. I'm like, dad, they need your credit card. And he's like, who? I'm like, Disney. And he is like, what? I had figured it out. And from that point forward for my family and eventually my friends, I was the person that planned all trips. Even if I wasn't going, they didn't care. Here, Fran, we wanna go to Boston.

Can you figure, and I have, I don't know how many hundreds of color coded. 'cause if you know me and my type a color coded deep research. Like name the place, I probably have an itinerary for it. So yeah, for a really long time. And for some, I think because I had the time now, I just made it official. I joined, um, a luxury travel company.

I got certified and now I'm really having like officially having fun. So yeah, that's how that led to this. But yeah, pretty much most of my life.

Laurie: Well, and some breaking news, which [00:06:00] we can sort of tease, but we, it's not all dialed in yet, but Fran's actually helping me to put together, uh, a retreat in Europe next year for the School of Midlife. So more, more to come on that. It's interesting that you say 10 years old because 10 years old is when I said I want to become an attorney.

And I did it for a number of reasons. And then every, everything in my life to that point was to get me to that, that goal or that dream that I set for myself at 10. And then what was interesting is I spent decades working towards that, achieving that. Then I finally realized in midlife that, well, that's not actually the dream that I have for my life.

You on the other hand though, this is something that you have always enjoyed. Are you able to see that the way that you enjoy it has [00:07:00] changed as you move through different seasons of your life? Are, are you able to see that maybe when the kids were young, maybe you just didn't have time to pursue it as much, or how has that dream of yours changed over the years?

Fran: Oh wow. That's a really good question. Well, it changed. In so many aspects. I feel like even just like when we get older and physically and financially, and I feel the same thing happened when it came to my travel when I was young, I didn't realize at the time, but my parents didn't really have a whole lot financially, and so we camped everywhere.

I didn't realize that that, I mean, it was by choice, but I didn't realize like that was pretty much this is it. And so maybe when I got older, we maybe stayed in a hotel or two, nothing major. And when I was around 18, in high school, they introduced this trip called Closeup, and we, I'll never forget being on an airplane.

[00:08:00] First time I was a, staying in a nice hotel and it wasn't really that nice, but like for me, it was great. Uh, I was on a plane, uh, away from my parents. Like I, I went with just friends and then, you know, the, the little type A, I'm like, okay, here's the itinerary. But like it finished at like four, and then we had free time and I'm like, well, what do we do?

You can walk around. I'm like, but I don't know the city. I'm by myself. Like in DC with friends. Like I just remember the whole like, oh my God, I have this freedom to just explore. And the city is so different from where I, from where I live. It was Washington DC. I'm live in Miami. And that to me was like the seed that planted like wow.

Of course I didn't travel again until I got married. I was 21 years old. Um, my hus, I have no idea why we chose London, which by the way, I love, but I don't know why we did that for our honeymoon. And so I just remember sitting in that plane thinking, [00:09:00] oh my God, if something happens, I was 21. If something happens, like, does he know how to get in touch with my dad?

Like I just, that's how, like I was still so young. As your seasons change, so do your, I feel like your travel interests, your, what you're able to, you know, to do. Um, my husband turns out he didn't like to travel at all, but it turned out he says we just didn't have the financial means to do it in the level that eases my, my stress, whether that's first class or whether that's, um, you know, a, a a five star hotel like he wants to not think of anything. He gets very nervous. He's always looking out for us. And so anything that we can afford, right? That just relieves that. So in that sense, I feel like, obviously here's this little girl.

By the way, I still go camping. My daughter and I, every single year, we take an annual mother-daughter [00:10:00] trip, usually camping this year. She's in law school her last year. Um, she usually has either Monday or Friday off. Long story, but she's like, mom, I have no time off. So I'm like, we're gonna do glamping. I found this really cool like tiny house in the middle of the ver Vermont, uh, mountains and we, I just got back on Monday and it was the most spectacular time.

But I say that about every trip. Because when we go camping you tend to just completely disconnect. Half the time, your cell phone, there's no cell phone service. Um, and I love that you are really just exploring nature. Um, you don't have these devices distracting you, so you have that connection and that's whether I'm with my daughter or I'm actually hosting a retreat next week camping as well.

I love being challenged, so I do love a lot of like back country camping where you're tent, everything has to fit in your backpack and there's no driving to where you're going. You have to walk for miles. I find that as a [00:11:00] challenge. But then like my husband, kids, he's like, you either put Fran in a tent or you put her in a really nice hotel.

I don't do the, so like has it, has it changed? Of course it has. We've explored a lot of Europe now that we're a little bit older. Um, I still feel that there's so much in the us. Like I Vermont, this was the first time I've been to Vermont and I absolutely loved it. So, yeah, no, it continues to change depending on the type of, uh, travel that I'm able to do.

We try, or I should say we as one to many, Fran me tries at least doing something once a month, even if it's an overnighter. Um, it does, it doesn't always have to be all the way, you know, to Europe. If I go to Europe, most times I take my husband, but not always. And um, yeah, I just, that's where I feel like you really get to know different cultures, different food, you're able to disconnect.

Um, so yeah, that very different [00:12:00] from, from even when I was young or even when I first got married. Travel definitely has changed.

Laurie: It sounds like to me that what you love is the experiences. The having the different experiences and travel just seems to be the vehicle that gets you there. Is that fair?

Fran: 100%. Um, you'll notice when I go travel, I usually, I don't like the touristy places.

Laurie: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Fran: you an example, Paris, we were talking about Paris the other day, and I'm like, the thought of me being in that center where the Eiffel Tower is, I'm like, I'd rather not go. I'm the kind of person that will maybe witness it either from my rental or a rooftop bar. But then I'm doing cooking classes or I find a local to take me to the market and maybe we, you know, do a food and wine type of thing.

But I am all about, like you said, experiences. It doesn't matter where I go. I definitely, that's me.

Laurie: I am exactly the same way I do. Have you ever been on the double decker buses in [00:13:00] the big cities? I, we love those.

Fran: Probably was like 20 years ago.

Laurie: They're very touristy, but what we do is we get on one. And you know, you can get on and get off all over. Um, but it's a fantastic way to see a big new city when you first get there. And you can see everything and then realize, okay, well this area is way too touristy for me.

But, you know, I checked it off the list. I saw it. Fine. Um, and then at least you have the lay of the land so that when you are walking around and you're thinking, well, where the hell am I now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um,

Fran: We do something similar. We actually take either a bike tour, like the electric bike tours.

Laurie: are so good. Aren't they? Bike tours

Fran: totally. And that usually day one, we either do that and or a food and wine where they take you to different, like neighborhoods and then, you know, you pick and choose what you, what you wanna go back to. So yeah.

Laurie: So for [00:14:00] those of you who are listening, who are thinking you might wanna go to Europe with Fran and me next year, just know, like we have a very similar way of traveling. And, uh, we, we like the experience and we like to really dive into the culture. And it's, it's gonna be fantastic.

But I don't want this episode to be about travel. The thing I admire the most about you Fran is not only your appetite for experience, but also how you have been able to really embrace your marriage in this season of life. Because not everyone is at that stage. I mean, a lot of people, you know, got married early, like you did, you said, I think you were 21.

Maybe if I, if I'm doing the math right, um. And, and they, it's great. They had this partner who helped them raise kids, but then they get to midlife and they're like, I don't really even know you anymore. Do I like you? I mean, I love you 'cause we're married and that's what it [00:15:00] says. And, but how has your relationship changed over the years? And are you seeing this as just kind of a natural progression of all of the, everything you've worked on?

Or are you finding new ways to be in love with your husband at this point?

Fran: Oh my gosh, that, um, definitely not something that just happened naturally. It was something that was very intentional. I always say that becoming an empty nester is someone just handed you a ginormous flashlight onto your marriage.

Laurie: Boom. Yes.

Fran: huge like, ooh. And the reason I say that is because anything you never addressed or anything you never fertilized, watered, took care of, comes up. I think I could be wrong, but even in the best of marriages, something's gonna come up. Whether it's something that you've held back and [00:16:00] you've been distracted with the kids and raising these children and being Uber drivers and you know all the things in your career. When all of a sudden you have a lot of downtime.

And my husband and I particularly, we are very different. And we've complimented each other and thank God that we continue to, but when we were first empty nesters, okay, real fun. First weekend. Yay. We're having a great time. And then. Two week weeks, then three weeks, and you're like, oh my God, like there's only so much TV I can watch.

He relaxes, he loves movies, he loves tv. I can't sit down for more than 15 minutes. So he's always like, can you sit with me? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I sit, I'm like, oh, let me, let me unload the dishwasher, whatever. I'm always moving. That, I mean, in every aspect of our lives, even what we find to be fun, thankfully we both love food and wine and so we do do date nights.

I'm also very grateful that my parents were married [00:17:00] for almost 50 years. They both passed away. But they were in love with each other. And I remember meeting my husband for the first time and my parents invited him over to our house in the Keys and him leaving. He comes from divorced parents and I remember him leaving saying, I have never had such an amazing time in my life. And I'm like, well, you just hung out in my house. he's like, your parents, your family, the way you guys just interact with each other. He's like, I've never had that. And I, that's the kind of thing I want for myself. That's something I wanna build with my own family.

And he always brings that up. It's something that you have to work on on a daily basis. So thanks to my parents, my mom always told me, Hey, your children are important. Yes, of course they need you to feel safe for all the things, but almost even more important is your marriage. And that was like something that I think women just like, wait, what do you mean my, my marriage is more important than my kids?[00:18:00] 

Like, that's something that was difficult, but now looking back. Unfortunately, I have so many friends that are either miserable or in the process of divorce, and it's because you didn't, they didn't spend the time in figuring things out along the way. All of a sudden, and it's very easy, I did it many times too, focus on your kids. You know, here you take him, I'll take her.

We'll, you know, we'll reconvene and you know, lunches. And next thing you know, 20 years later, they're doing the exact thing that they need. that you Basically train them to do and they take off and then you're like, oh God, I spend all my time on them and not him. And so my husband and I have just, and we continue to just try to find new things and you know, whereas I don't like to golf or he doesn't like to go whatever, camping or.

We're just like, you know what? Let's try it in a different light. Maybe we can do glamping. We, I won't put you in a tent, but how [00:19:00] about if we rented an RV last year for Thanksgiving? And he literally was like, oh my God. He's like, don't get crazy. We're not buying one right now. But he is like, I actually really enjoyed it.

We had such a lovely time. He is like, you know, something a little nice. That, you know, I don't have to drive all the things. Same thing with me, with him. Like he just recently took up a, over the last couple years hunting, and so he is like, Fran, you love camping. If you want, you can come, you can camp. I'll stay in.

He's like, I'd rather stay in like a lodge. But he's like, you can camp, but then you can sit with me and we can, you know, learn to hunt together. And I'm like, I'm in for sure. I'm, I don't know if I'll like it, but we'll try it. So, I mean, that's not something you can do every day, but date nights at least I'm the girl that always buys, I just, just in the mail got these date night cards that my daughter and I, um, they had left in the Airbnb where we stayed in Vermont. And, um, and her and I were doing it and she's like, not appropriate some of the things for you and I, but I'm like, I'm buying it for your dad. And she's [00:20:00] like, please don't tell me.

I'm like, I don't care. I, we're gonna try it. So anything. So to answer your long story, yes, absolutely a continuous evolve. But it is something that doesn't just happen. It's something that you do have to think about, communicate, be vulnerable to each other over again. It's almost like you have to date that person again.

Um, and in that, to me, the most important really for any relationship is that vulnerability. And so, when you come from that place, you're, I think that you open up more space to not just share, but to listen and to receive, and then explore things together.

Laurie: Uh, that is beautiful. Thank you so much for being so honest and open and sharing that. There, there's so much that you said that resonated with me. You know, Mike and I don't have children and there were many years where I thought, we're not gonna make it right. I mean, you, you like, you just get right there.

[00:21:00] Because we didn't have that distraction of the kids, we didn't have the distraction of, wow, communication's getting really hard right now. We're just gonna pour all of our energy into, to raising small humans. We didn't have that luxury. I do think it taught us to communicate a little bit better. Um, and so it is interesting watching women age into this time in their life where they have one idea about how they're gonna spend the rest of their life with their spouse.

Oftentimes, their spouse has a completely different I idea of it. You know, I mean, they... for women mostly we are the ones who are making the appointments and scheduling the, the vacation and making sure that, you know, the doctor's visits are, everybody's got a, a gift under the tree for the holidays.

I mean, we're. We carry most of the water when it comes to the [00:22:00] things that, that we do in a relationship. And most of our husbands are pretty happy with that. I mean, it's, it's worked okay for them.

Fran: And then add the physical aspect too, right? Like both of you, you and your husband go through these physical changes that affect you mentally and um, and it's true. You, you know, you talk a lot about when we retire, you know, maybe we'll travel, we'll do this, but you're not very specific. Just the other, um, Monday, my husband and I, we went on date night and there's a nice area in Miami called Coral Gables.

And it's really nice because depending on where you live in Coral Gables, we don't live there. But you can literally own and walk everywhere. You can walk to do your groceries, you can walk to hundreds of different amazing restaurants. Like it's very walkable, it's beautiful. It's almost like its own city.

And so we were talking about, I'm talking about, you know, with our money. Here's what I think we should do. I think we should move into like a, like an assistant, like a senior citizen, like community. He is like, absolutely not. I [00:23:00] wanna come here to Coral Gables. I'm like, we need to meet somewhere in the middle.

I'm like, well, I'm not getting a new house. And he is like, well, I'm not living in an apartment. So I'm like, okay, clearly we need to talk about a few things, like we've talked about travel. We've talked about maybe living abroad for a little bit. But like. We're always gonna have a place in Miami what that's gonna look like.

No, we're still working out the kinks. But yeah, there's a lot of communication that, um, that needs to happen. And I think also women, at least for me, when you turn, I think fifties is like that magic number where you just don't give a shit. Like you just, I know what I want. I've lived quite a bit of my life.

Um, I'm cemented in certain ways. I don't, almost like you don't have tolerance for anything that goes against what you feel and, and how you expect to be treated or, or to do. And so I feel like that even adds to the mix [00:24:00] in your conversations, right? So. Yeah, there's a lot of things that I, you know, you only hear about the hot flashes when, when you get older.

I'm like, I'll take those all day, all day, compared to everything else that's thrown on you. So, yeah, it's navigating through all of that.

Laurie: If you had one piece of advice to give to a woman who is finding herself in midlife or at any stage in her, in her marriage and she's wondering if it's worth it, what would you tell her?

Fran: If it's any age, I would say take the time to get to know yourself at each season. Like take the time for you. Um, I do that, obviously. I'm, I, not everyone's gonna go camping, but I'm not a big journaler, but I recognize the importance of, I have a particular thought. Where's that coming from? What do I wanna do?

Like, is that gonna [00:25:00] be, you know, my main thought or is that just like, you know what, that's not necessarily correct. And it could be a negative thought, it could be a positive thought. Like I truly feel that you can work through that. But in that work is when you uncover parts of yourself that you didn't even realize.

And so that's where I find, um, that would be my advice is just get take time to, to really get to know yourself and spending just that alone time as often as you can. Whether that's your morning ritual or you've gotta check yourself into a little hotel for a night or two. Or you take a retreat in Idaho without knowing anyone, but it's actually helps you, um, guide you along that thought process.

So that would probably be my number one. I don't care how old you are. You're, you're constantly grow. Hopefully you're constantly growing and so that's the best way to do it, I think.

Laurie: Um. I couldn't have said it any better. I mean, I, I think so often when there is [00:26:00] any resistance or discomfort or anything that we are maybe experiencing for the first time, or it just, it feels a little different than we expected it to, our default reaction is, how can I fix everything around me? How can I change him?

How can I change this relationship? How can I get a new job? When, for the most part, not everything. 'cause there are, there are reasons that women need to not be in a marriage anymore. Absolutely. There are reasons why you don't need to be at that job anymore. But if you don't do, if you don't spend the time to actually look , and go inward and figure out what do I want, what's important to me in this season?

What, what are my non-negotiables? What will I not tolerate anymore? Then you are gonna be quick to make a move maybe, or you're gonna make a move with an expectation that things are gonna be different. And you're just [00:27:00] gonna take your little self and put you right in this new environment, and you're still going to feel all that angst and discomfort and like you're not really doing it.

So I love the idea that it's so important to get to know yourself.

Fran: I agree. One of my favorite questions is, what else could be true?

Laurie: hmm.

Fran: I find myself and I can't, that was not me. Um, I think, I think her name is Katie Byron, if I'm not mistaken. Um. She wrote an amazing book, but that's the one question she asks. When you have a thought, especially if it's a negative one, and especially if you have, you're in the middle of some sort of circumstance, whether that's midlife, empty nesting, you know, losing a job even. And you have a particular thought, you have to retrain your brain to maybe grab onto other things. That could also be true, like perhaps it is your fault or perhaps you could have done better, but what else is also true? And when you discover, when you start [00:28:00] uncovering those things, you realize like, okay, that could be a thought, but more, um, I should say more anchoring, more true, could be some other things. I mean, we can totally go into deep. I know some people that, um, they have like their, their journal, like their success journal and, and that helps 'em go through that process. Everyone has their own process. But for me, anytime I find myself admit, and going through midlife was a big one, empty nesting.

Like, oh my God, you know, here I am. Am I, am I stuck? My kids don't need me anymore. I don't know what else to, I don't know what else to do, right? And career, my body, whatever that is. And then I asked myself, well, what else could be true? Well, I kind of do know, I haven't really, you know, done some research and there are plenty of things that you really do like to do, travel, like, so like in that, in that process.

But if you don't take that time to just dive a little deeper. We [00:29:00] typically just dismiss a thought and move on and just barrel through it. And especially high performing women, right? Like we're just, we're, we're gonna get through this. And sometimes it just needs a little gentle hand and thought and, and taking that time for yourself.

I know I go back to that.

Laurie: We either dismiss it or we fixate on it; right? And then we're trying to find evidence to prove our point to, to understand why we think the way that we do. And then, then it becomes a belief because we're not even automatic. We're, we're not even thinking about it anymore. It's just true. Uh, so, so important to. Just like you can gather evidence to, to support your point of view.

With this whole idea of what else can be true, you can gather lots of evidence to disprove it. Or to to, to move you in another direction. Um, coming back to the, the marriage, you talked a lot about you, you've said date night, and is that something you do regularly? [00:30:00] Is it always on the calendar? Can you walk us through what that looks like?

Fran: Date

Laurie: Does it always end in sex? No, I'm kidding.

Fran: well.

Laurie: Yeah. Yeah. No, people wanna know, Fran. People wanna know.

Fran: Listened and that's, that is a whole other chapter when you hit midlife menopause particularly. But yes, it is definitely, it's something we do often. However, one that is always on our books, are Wednesdays. And I don't even know how we picked Wednesdays. I think it was because most Wednesdays restaurants are not full.

Like it's just easy. You don't barely even need a re a reservation Thursday, Friday, Saturday, SU, you know that those tend to be heavy days. But on a Wednesday, a random Wednesday, usually you can walk into most restaurants. And, and plus we love to eat really early. Um,

Laurie: It's so good, isn't it? That's like, I, I feel like why is nobody talking about that? That they, you can, you can go have [00:31:00] dinner early. You can go for a walk afterwards. Everything settles before it's time to go to bed. I mean, early dinner. I am here for it 100%.

Fran: Same. I mean, you know, some of our friends like it a little later, but we always like, they'll tell us eight and we're like, how about six

Laurie: No. not,

Fran: Like so, yeah. But for us, one of the common things that we do have is we love to enjoy new ways of food have been pre prepared. So it could be ju just an ordinary dish that's been prepared a different way and flavors and, and you know, a nice glass of wine.

We're not big drinkers, so we usually even just share a glass of wine. But that moment of like, oh my God, you have to try this and like, take, take a piece, but you gotta add a little bit of that potato with the sauce. Literally, if someone was to record us, that's what our table sounds like.

We're just like, just enjoying the food. That becomes a moment. And then yes, just like you mentioned, we come home, we [00:32:00] try, although it's really hot these days, but um, on cooler months, we do go for a walk. We have our little loop around our neighborhood, and that's our catch up time. That's our, you know, that's the moment that, you know, anything I, I'm, I've been known to ask random questions, so it's always like, okay, tell me about, because it becomes just like your kids.

How was your day? Fine. No, I don't want fine. So I will ask, what something that made you laugh today or something that surprised you today or something he, you know, he'll roll his eyes, but he, thank God plays along and you get to have a glimpse into each other's life just a little bit more. 'cause otherwise it just, the kids can be replaced with, with work.

And then that's what you're talking about. And I'd rather talk about him and I. And even dreaming. And he, yes. My, you know, like a typical man, he's like, oh, here she goes again. Do we really need to talk about our dreams? Yes. Clearly we Do You think we're gonna Coral Gables and I think I'm going to the Palace.

Like there's gotta, you [00:33:00] know what I mean? We need to, we need to talk. So like, to me, those are the moments. Yes, date nights are always on the books. Um, unless obviously something happens. But we do it as often as we can. It's just the two of us, and if we really don't wanna spend the money, fine, we'll go to a restaurant.

We usually share a glass of wine, share our dish. It's really not too expensive to go out with us because, um, we just, we found a rhythm.

Laurie: It's interesting because oftentimes we will go for a walk after dinner, with Theo the dog. And it's invariably, you, you pass two people walking and the wife is always like, talking, talking, talking. And the guy is just like walking, not saying anything. Um, but like you, I I, I am sure being in my head, Mike is probably like, where the hell did that come?

Like, it's very squirrel, you know, he'll say something and then I'm onto [00:34:00] something. But it really is interesting how deeply connected you can get on a walk where you're not just sitting there looking at each other. You've got other things going on till, you know, the, the foothills or the sunset or whatever the dog is doing.

Um, but it's, it's simple. It doesn't have to be hard. It doesn't, you know, you don't have to go away to create this great big experience. I mean, I, I think that so often, we are sold this idea that our spouse is going to be our best friend and our confidant, and our cheerleader and our lover and, and do everything our, all the things, which maybe some of us have that relationship, but I think if we're honest, we are getting sustenance and support from other places.

It doesn't have to be this one person. But if we [00:35:00] find that we are getting all of our needs met somewhere else, then we gotta come, kind of come back to that relationship and say, what, what am I not getting here? Why am I overcompensating for this? What do I own in this relationship? Because like you said, it's it's not easy. And it doesn't just happen. I mean, it, isn't it interesting that we, we are sold this idea that just get to the, the, the, like the wedding is gonna be the hardest part or finding someone to marry. And no way is that the hardest part. It's all of the hills and valleys along the way that you learn how to, to fjord together.

Fran: Oh, totally. And I'm glad you told me that it doesn't have to be anything major. Um, I could, I can't help but think that Monday that we went for our dinner, that we had this conversation about very vast different ideas of what retirement was gonna look like. I [00:36:00] have to be honest, I felt the most connected with my husband.

Like it was the most, we were just driving stuck in traffic, really. But it was just such a wonderful connecting time. I felt heard. I felt like I was actively engaged in his dream as well as that he was listening. So silly, but so important. And so those are the little moments that you try to recreate.

No, it's not easy. And you mentioned finding everything with that one person. And although there probably have been moments throughout. I've been married 31 years, I'm sure mid moments where he's fit one role or the other, and in the best day, he's all of them. Right? But that's not the usual. Um, one of the things when I went through, started going through menopause, midlife, whatever you wanna call it was, I felt, um, I was missing my friendships and I had plenty of [00:37:00] friends.

Laurie: God. So important.

Fran: I had plenty of friends, but friendships. Like just on a, making it, making, putting time aside for each other as well. And so I started my own book club. And from that, that stemmed into other things as well. But I, I've always said, if you don't have the, if you find yourself and you don't have the community that you feel you need, then you start creating one.

I was not gonna sit there and just wait for it to come. And you, when you said you have to dress, rehearse, well, maybe it's book club, maybe it's something else. We're gonna start with book club and I, it turns out we all needed it. As a matter of fact, it's actually morphed into now we're, um, starting a cookbook book club where everybody brings their favorite recipe. And they make it, but they also bring the recipe.

And we're gonna little by little compile an entire cookbook of our favorite things. And so, maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. We don't, like, as long as we're doing it together and the conversations that come out of those [00:38:00] types of reunions, if you will, um, are so special. That, that to me is what's gonna propel me for this fourth quarter.

Yes, of course, my husband. But it's not just him and I, you know what I mean? It's, it's all of it. And the friendships to me are women need their friends. They really, really do.

Laurie: they 100%. Absolutely. And it's, it's hard to meet new friends as you get older. Um, so it's, it's all in the nurturing. I, I love that so much. Since you brought dress rehearsal up again, um. ,I can't help but think. It's so incredible that you and your husband, just even the whole Coral Gables or apartment condo somewhere... isn't it great that you didn't decide we're going to delay this decision until we're both retired, until we're ready to figure out what we wanna do next?

Because you have wildly [00:39:00] different ideas about what that even looks like. That's, that's, that's why I think you need to actually start doing some things that are different or having some experiences that you think you're interested in. And test them out because you, I, I am not a camper. I'm done with that part of my life, but there are women out there who are probably like this camping, this glamping.

That sounds kind of interesting. Go do it. See if you like it. But don't like, think you're going to have your entire retirement or the, the second, the third half of your life, you know, the third part of your life doing something that sounds great or you see other people doing it. If it, if you haven't experienced it for yourself to know if you actually like it, if that's what you want.

Fran: yes. Because of you. So I, about two years ago, had to go to a conference. It was close to Asheville. And there's like a little community [00:40:00] that several friends of mine have a second home there and it's around the lake. And I, if you know, if you haven't noticed already, I'm a mountain girl. I know I live by the beach, but I'm a mountain girl.

Leave me there. I'm the happiest. And so I tell my husband, you know what? You should meet with me after the conference and let's go to this town. And maybe it's where we we're gonna wanna find a second home. Maybe this is where we're gonna, you know what I mean? This is where we're gonna retire, like I had this whole vision, this is what I wanted. And we stayed within 48 hours. I'm like, get me out of here. I didn't realize like I, we can't have too small of a town. I need variety. I need good restaurants. I can't be driving 30 minutes for dinner every single, like, and then you go 30 minutes and there's one like, oh my God, no. , Get me outta here.

And it was beautiful. It was gorgeous. Not what I had in mind. So if it wasn't for you, Laurie, I would never have dressed, rehearsed this particular location where I probably would've been like, we're just gonna [00:41:00] go check it out, buy a place, or maybe, you know, thank God we rented a little spot. And um, we rehearsed and we realized it was not a good fit.

So yeah, definitely super important.

Laurie: That's that. That 100% goes back to what you were talking about. You know what else can be true? It can be true that it is a lovely little place, but not for me. It is a great spot for my friends to have a home. That's good for them. It's not gonna work for me. So, you know, I think.

Fran: A wonderful way to disconnect. Not for me.

Laurie: Yeah, but now you know. Now you have the data and you can, you know, do something else and find something else that is a better fit that is more like what best life Fran is, looks like thrives in, wants to live like; right.

Fran: I also feel that you have to be open to trying something that might challenge you. Or that you previously [00:42:00] thought you wouldn't like, but you've never really tried it. And, and since we're talking about camping, I love bringing women that like, oh, camping's not for me. I'm like, give me one weekend and you'll never have to do it again.

But let me show you Fran's camping.

Laurie: Okay.

Fran: cannot tell you how many women have grabbed me and they're like, I didn't realize my heart needed it, but it's been healed. And I'm like, welcome to the magic of the mountains and really the campfire. Now, does it mean that everybody's gonna love camping? No. But. You know what I mean?

Putting yourself out there. Look at me in Idaho when I went to retreat. Like you tell Miami girl, like I was telling my girlfriend, I'm like, I'm gonna Idaho. What were there potatoes? I'm like, I don't know. I've never been here. But there's this retreat. But who are you going with? I don't know those either, but I'm gonna meet them and here I go.

And it was spectacular. It was amazing. And so, you know, you gotta open yourself up to those things and being challenged.

Laurie: Yeah. I love that. [00:43:00] Um, anything else that comes to mind as we're talking about mid Lifeing and what you've experienced and you know, what you want to share with the listeners?

Fran: Oh my gosh, Laurie. I feel like there are so many avenues and aspects of life that I feel like we've even covered quite a bit of it. At the end of the day, like I mentioned, just getting to know yourself and then allowing yourself to stretch a little. Try I trying something that you aren't sure you're even gonna like, or maybe even think you don't like, but you've never actually tried.

I feel that in that, um, going through that challenge is where the best successes come. Where the best, um, feelings and positivity and, you know, you, you're able to look at yourself and say, oh my God, I went through it. Maybe it's not for you, but I did it. And I feel like we're never going to be too old to not need, um, a challenge and, and, and see that growth in ourselves.

I [00:44:00] feel like that to me is, is hugely important if you want a joyful fourth quarter. That to me, is, is, is, is it?

Laurie: Beautifully said.

Fran: Thank you.

Laurie: Fran, we end every episode of the School of Midlife with The same two questions. Are you ready?

Fran: I am ready.

Laurie: Question number one. If you could go back knowing everything that you know now, having experienced all of the things that you have experienced, learned all of the life lessons that you have learned to date, what advice would you give your 20-year-old self?

Fran: Do we need another episode? Oh my gosh.

Laurie: You can come back. We'll, we'll talk, we'll talk all about that, but off the cuff, I'm interested in what have you learned that you feel like maybe is the most important that you would give to your 20-year-old self?

Fran: I feel that it would be the mistake that thinking that I used to have was [00:45:00] the goal is the success, like when

Laurie: Hmm.

Fran: a particular goal, that's the success and I would have to say, it's that one foot in front of the other, that growth, that's where the success was. It, yes, obviously we wanna get to a particular goal, but sometimes we don't.

As a matter of fact, many times we don't. And so how can we go through that without feeling it was a failure? And so if that was one thing that I wish my youngest self would've known. I think I would've allowed myself to try, so I didn't even, I didn't even play sports. Not because I, I mean, I've never really loved sports anyway. But really, if I'm being honest, I never would even try out or even play an intermi because I was so afraid of failing. I was so afraid of being the student. I wanted to go from zero to a hundred. Like just know it. Um, and I feel like a lot of times in our lives we stop ourselves because, [00:46:00] um ,we don't have that, that we focus so much on how am I gonna get to that goal? And we don't focus on what kind of growth can happen with throughout that.

Laurie: You are absolutely right. We need to have a whole other episode because that I, that is the crux of everything that I talk about at the School of Midlife. You know, how we have been sold this idea that success is the completion of another goal. And with all that conditioning. We have, we, we've stopped letting ourselves dream because what if we can't get there?

But you're absolutely right. It has nothing to do with are you actually going to achieve that goal? Are you going to achieve that dream? It's who you are becoming on your way to that. It's, it's how you're moving through life as you, as, as you try and, and, and get there that. [00:47:00] What you said, so beautiful.

20-year-old self would love that. Finally, um, question number two, what do you love most about being a midlife woman?

Fran: The freedom.

Laurie: Hmm.

Fran: Freedom to explore things. I probably always had that kind of freedom, but perhaps because you have the freedom of time, the, the freedom of life experience that now you are free to explore other things. Um, the freedom to, to of time, to with your spouse, with your, with your friends, the freedom to reflect and to work on yourself and to continue growing.

Like for me, it's the freedom. The freedom to travel. Like at the end of the day, the underlying thing is probably the freedom that I feel. Maybe not in the traditional sense, but the freedom that I feel that I'm able to. Have time. I've got, I've got, you know, such a blessed life [00:48:00] and I only just started.

So I feel, for me, that's the freedom.

Laurie: Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for being here. I know our listeners are gonna love this conversation as much as I have enjoyed it, it's, it's so good to see you, my friend. Have a great day.

Fran: You too.

 Thank you so much for listening to the School of Midlife podcast. It means so much to have you here each week. If you enjoyed this episode, could you do me the biggest favor and help us spread the word to other midlife women? There are a couple of easy ways for you to do that first. And most importantly, if you're not already following the show, would you please subscribe? That helps you because you'll never miss an episode. And it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. Second, if you'd be so kind to leave us a five-star rating, that would be absolutely incredible. And finally, I personally read each and every one of your reviews. 

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